Sylvia Marie Likens

This forum is a place to discuss Sylvia Marie Likens and defend her agianst the Baniszewski family members on the old Yuku forum. Yes Sockrates on that forum is Paula's son. They used lies and manipulation to shut our other board down, but we are back.
 
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 When was the most crucial moment?

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Ann85



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PostSubject: When was the most crucial moment?   Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:43 pm

I got to reading up about how Sylvia had been using a coal shovel to attract attention in order to get help in the last night of her life. She had scraped the shovel on the floor of the basement for two hours, almost prompting Mrs. Vermillion to call the police.

My thought: What if the Vermillions had called the authorities? If Sylvia had scraped the shovel just a little longer, the cops may have been called. Could she have been saved in that case? Or would Gert make up some kind of story to keep the cops from going in the basement? The sad part is, I don't think the Vermillions calling the police would have done anything. The police would have shown up, and nothing would have happened. So when would have been the most crucial moment in order to have saved Sylvia's life? If she had been taken to the hospital the night before her death, would doctors have been able to do anything, or would she have died anyway? I've also looked to see the exact cause of death, which was noted on the death certificate as being "increased bilateral pressure due to brain contusion" and "shock from multiple burns and lacerations". Trauma and ER doctors today can work with concusions, but sometimes people with serious brain injuries don't make it.

Considering also the medical technology of the time, there would have been no way for Sylvia to undergo a CT scan to measure the depth of damage done to her brain. Even if she had survived, I fear she would have been brain damaged severely. The loss of memory indicates brain damage. I don't know any neurologists, but they would be able to explain what bilateral pressure is. I wouldn't know. I question as to exactly when would have been the most important time to save Sylvia. I know I'm kind of going everywhere with this, so I apologize.
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broommy
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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:02 pm

Mrs. Vermillion's combination of annoyance and curiosity guided her outdoors; she saw a light in the Baniszewski basement, and she decided that the basement was the source of the noise.
Inside, the younger children, including Jenny, had gone to bed. The noise continued. " Well, I just may have to call the police to stop that," the neighbor mused.But it stopped--- at 3am What happened in the basement that night was known only to Gertrude and to Sylvia; one of them never told, and the other never had a chance to.  John Dean House of Evil


This was one of the most chilling passages from the book.  The shovel scraping is so weird, because why would Gert allow Sylvia to do that?  I think that this is the instance where Sylvia received the death blow.  Say Gert was passed out because of her medicine and woke up to this noise, she would most certainly go in the basement and hit Sylvia with that shovel.  

If the police would have heard that weird noise, Gertrude would have had to let them in.  Say one of the kids opened the door and let them in.  It is clear to me that Mrs. V is partly responsible for Sylvia's death.
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Ann85



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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:21 pm

broommy wrote:
Mrs. Vermillion's combination of annoyance and curiosity guided her outdoors; she saw a light in the Baniszewski basement, and she decided that the basement was the source of the noise.
Inside, the younger children, including Jenny, had gone to bed. The noise continued. " Well, I just may have to call the police to stop that," the neighbor mused.But it stopped--- at 3am What happened in the basement that night was known only to Gertrude and to Sylvia; one of them never told, and the other never had a chance to.  John Dean House of Evil

That is the most chilling paragraph I've read. I have never gotten the chance to check out John Dean's "House of Evil". But now that you posted that, it's clear to me that something made Sylvia stop, and Mrs. V didn't call the cops.

broommy wrote:
This was one of the most chilling passages from the book.  The shovel scraping is so weird, because why would Gert allow Sylvia to do that?  I think that this is the instance where Sylvia received the death blow.  Say Gert was passed out because of her medicine and woke up to this noise, she would most certainly go in the basement and hit Sylvia with that shovel.  

If the police would have heard that weird noise, Gertrude would have had to let them in.  Say one of the kids opened the door and let them in.  It is clear to me that Mrs. V is partly responsible for Sylvia's death.

I'm pretty sure you are right. I think Gertrude single-handedly murdered Sylvia. If she did in fact beat her with that shovel, and coal shovels must be pretty large. If that is what caused her brain contusion, then we have our method of killing. Not to mention the MASSIVE amounts of abuse that Sylvia went through. But now that you mention it, Broommy, I think that's exactly what caused her death. I think Sylvia died at that instant, and they went about the 26th as though she wasn't. As I have read, the coroner stated that by the time police were finally called after it was evident that Sylvia was dead, she had been dead for at least 8-12 hours. I think she died in the very early hours of the 26th as a result of that beating. Oh, if only this had happened very recently, the forensic evidence would have been startling!
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dreamlover



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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:35 pm

That is a pretty chilling passage from the book. I think that she died in the early morning of the 26th also. One of the kids that was on trial said he heard Sylvia moaning in the bathroom. If that kid wasn't in the bathroom when Stephanie was bathing Sylvia, how would he know that it had been Sylvia that was moaning? If Sylvia was dead, why would she moan? Those two things just don't add up. I think Stephanie could've been moaning and told everyone that I was Sylvia who was doing it.
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Ann85



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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:56 pm

Precisely, dreamlover.
I think by the time the kids had left that morning to go to school, Sylvia was already dead. If she was beaten with the shovel in the middle of the night at 3am or so, then she had to have died within hours, or even instantly. I think now it was that particular beating that killed her. But to question that: Was there any evidence that Sylvia had been beaten with the shovel? Were there any signs of trauma on the outside of her head? Was there blood on the shovel or on her head? Is that why she was bathed, because she had already been dead several hours before and the Bans wanted to cover that part up? What about the donuts and milk story? How could Sylvia have been up and out of the basement on the morning of the 26th, sitting in the kitchen if she were dead? I think that's a false story.

This is what leads me to believe that had she been able to escape on the 25th, there is a possibility that Sylvia Likens would have survived. Although she would have been under intensive care, she would have a chance at recovery. I don't know how likely that would have been. Depends on how bad her injuries were.
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Jenkins65



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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:36 pm

For me it was when Cookie got baptized. I know that might sound fatalist but it gives me relief of the horrible burden this story put on me first learning from my Aunt. So many what if's used to drive me crazy thinkin bout it!
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broommy
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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:49 pm

I am not a very religious person, but I know that faith comforts people. I would love to think that Sylvia knew that when she died that she would be going to heaven.
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Jenkins65



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PostSubject: Re: When was the most crucial moment?   Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:06 am

"I would love to think that Sylvia knew that when she died that she would be going to heaven."

You can know with total assurance, but that's up to you, take care hon.
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